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	<title>Comments on: National Post: &#8220;Mosque says to avoid Western holidays&#8221; [Updated]</title>
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	<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/</link>
	<description>Joey deVilla's Personal Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-737</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 01:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-737</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s &quot;reasonable&quot; about demanding that men have part of their d!cks cut off - let along boys and babies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s &#8220;reasonable&#8221; about demanding that men have part of their d!cks cut off &#8211; let along boys and babies?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-733</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-733</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve attended attended Christian congregations of varying degrees of ah, fundamentalism.  From the tame United, Anglican and Catholic denominations to the odder Vineyard Churches -- and the Christian &amp; Missionary Alliance, spiritual home of Stephen Harper [cue ominous music].  They are all very sane about the performing arts.

I can&#039;t say that prohibition of movies and plays comes up at all in sermons or pronouncements of the church leadership.  They might bark about the content of the performance, but doing away with them entirely is simply not in their headspace.  The C&amp;MA in particular likes to throw together huge musical and performance extravaganzas around the major holidays.

The key, as with anything, is how you interpret the source.  If a denomination likes to cherrypick single verses devoid of context, then you get ridiculous things like prohibition of performing arts based on a biblical injunction not to lie.

If you use proper &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hermeneutics&lt;/a&gt; and consider the source in the context of its surrounding paragraphs, the epistle it is a part of, the author, the social and cultural environment it was written in, etc, then you realise that Biblical prohibitions against lying are generally restricted to personal moral conduct, as opposed to the performing arts.

Additionally, when Jesus spoke in parables, he wasn&#039;t always speaking of events that had actually happened.  Sometimes he used hypothetical examples to illustrate a larger point -- which is exactly what the performing arts do too (to greater or lesser degrees of success).

That said, there an awful lot of people who do not take a hermeneutic approach to Biblical study -- that&#039;s how we ended up with 1 Corinthians 13 being used as a scrupture reading for weddings, despite the fact that the author, Paul, isn&#039;t talking about marital love at all.  The previous chapter and the following chapter all discuss &quot;spiritual gifts&quot; and how church members ought to treat each other.  In chap. 13 Paul is emphasizing that any &quot;spiritual gifts&quot; must be exercised with love.  He didn&#039;t have a massive derailment of his train of thought and go off into a tangent about marriage in that one section.

The guys that don&#039;t take the time to understand ancient text and understand their whole context are the guys that end up with the wacky ideas.  This stuff was written in ancient languages, by cultures that no longer exist.  It takes time and effort to understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve attended attended Christian congregations of varying degrees of ah, fundamentalism.  From the tame United, Anglican and Catholic denominations to the odder Vineyard Churches &#8212; and the Christian &amp; Missionary Alliance, spiritual home of Stephen Harper [cue ominous music].  They are all very sane about the performing arts.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say that prohibition of movies and plays comes up at all in sermons or pronouncements of the church leadership.  They might bark about the content of the performance, but doing away with them entirely is simply not in their headspace.  The C&amp;MA in particular likes to throw together huge musical and performance extravaganzas around the major holidays.</p>
<p>The key, as with anything, is how you interpret the source.  If a denomination likes to cherrypick single verses devoid of context, then you get ridiculous things like prohibition of performing arts based on a biblical injunction not to lie.</p>
<p>If you use proper <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics" rel="nofollow">hermeneutics</a> and consider the source in the context of its surrounding paragraphs, the epistle it is a part of, the author, the social and cultural environment it was written in, etc, then you realise that Biblical prohibitions against lying are generally restricted to personal moral conduct, as opposed to the performing arts.</p>
<p>Additionally, when Jesus spoke in parables, he wasn&#8217;t always speaking of events that had actually happened.  Sometimes he used hypothetical examples to illustrate a larger point &#8212; which is exactly what the performing arts do too (to greater or lesser degrees of success).</p>
<p>That said, there an awful lot of people who do not take a hermeneutic approach to Biblical study &#8212; that&#8217;s how we ended up with 1 Corinthians 13 being used as a scrupture reading for weddings, despite the fact that the author, Paul, isn&#8217;t talking about marital love at all.  The previous chapter and the following chapter all discuss &#8220;spiritual gifts&#8221; and how church members ought to treat each other.  In chap. 13 Paul is emphasizing that any &#8220;spiritual gifts&#8221; must be exercised with love.  He didn&#8217;t have a massive derailment of his train of thought and go off into a tangent about marriage in that one section.</p>
<p>The guys that don&#8217;t take the time to understand ancient text and understand their whole context are the guys that end up with the wacky ideas.  This stuff was written in ancient languages, by cultures that no longer exist.  It takes time and effort to understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: sdv</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>sdv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 20:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-731</guid>
		<description>Some Christian denominations similarly ban movies and plays because the actors are lying.  I know my parents (very mainstream protestants) were raised hearing this.  Nowadays I think it is only the more extreme fundamentalist churches that still rattle on about it, (although I&#039;m sure the Passion of the Christ was legit to them)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some Christian denominations similarly ban movies and plays because the actors are lying.  I know my parents (very mainstream protestants) were raised hearing this.  Nowadays I think it is only the more extreme fundamentalist churches that still rattle on about it, (although I&#8217;m sure the Passion of the Christ was legit to them)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Clarke</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 20:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-730</guid>
		<description>Hee hee, Brent&#039;s funny!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hee hee, Brent&#8217;s funny!</p>
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		<title>By: Joey deVilla</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey deVilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-721</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Savitch:&lt;/strong&gt; I estimate that your estimation is an underestimate. &lt;a href=&quot;http://savitchtoons.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Based on your comics, I suppose you&#039;re not into &quot;subtle&quot;.&lt;/a&gt; To each his own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Savitch:</strong> I estimate that your estimation is an underestimate. <a href="http://savitchtoons.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Based on your comics, I suppose you&#8217;re not into &#8220;subtle&#8221;.</a> To each his own.</p>
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		<title>By: Savitch</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>Savitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-714</guid>
		<description>&quot;but since fundies of all stripes annoy me&quot;

Based on this comment, I&#039;d estimate...alot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but since fundies of all stripes annoy me&#8221;</p>
<p>Based on this comment, I&#8217;d estimate&#8230;alot.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-710</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-710</guid>
		<description>Perhaps female circumcision&#039;s optional status should be emphasised by changing it from &quot;mustahabb&quot; to &quot;nicetohabb&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps female circumcision&#8217;s optional status should be emphasised by changing it from &#8220;mustahabb&#8221; to &#8220;nicetohabb&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Joey deVilla</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-708</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey deVilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 02:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-708</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Savitch:&lt;/strong&gt; In what way am I underestimating Islam, in your estimation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Savitch:</strong> In what way am I underestimating Islam, in your estimation?</p>
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		<title>By: Savitch</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-707</link>
		<dc:creator>Savitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 02:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-707</guid>
		<description>He who underestimates islam is destined to become muslim. Get ya prayer rug Joey, sounds like you&#039;ll need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He who underestimates islam is destined to become muslim. Get ya prayer rug Joey, sounds like you&#8217;ll need it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey deVilla</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-706</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey deVilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 02:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-706</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Chris Taylor:&lt;/strong&gt; Found it out why I didn&#039;t see the term &quot;Thanksgiving&quot;; it was on page 2. I didn&#039;t notice a link to a second page of the article. Thanks again for doing the legwork!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Chris Taylor:</strong> Found it out why I didn&#8217;t see the term &#8220;Thanksgiving&#8221;; it was on page 2. I didn&#8217;t notice a link to a second page of the article. Thanks again for doing the legwork!</p>
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		<title>By: Joey deVilla</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-705</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey deVilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 02:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-705</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Foehammer:&lt;/strong&gt; Well, we&#039;re going to have to agree to disagree on that point. Welcome to the blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Foehammer:</strong> Well, we&#8217;re going to have to agree to disagree on that point. Welcome to the blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Joey deVilla</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey deVilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 02:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-704</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Chris Taylor:&lt;/strong&gt; Hmmm...I ran a search on Thanksgiving, got that article as a result, hit that page, did a search on that page for the word &quot;Thanksgiving&quot; and got nothing. Perhaps I mistyped the word. Thanks for the heads-up!

So, who wants to submit the question &quot;The &#039;Cleveland Steamer&#039;...okey-dokey or forbidden? How about the &#039;Hot Karl&#039;?&quot; I&#039;m tempted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Chris Taylor:</strong> Hmmm&#8230;I ran a search on Thanksgiving, got that article as a result, hit that page, did a search on that page for the word &#8220;Thanksgiving&#8221; and got nothing. Perhaps I mistyped the word. Thanks for the heads-up!</p>
<p>So, who wants to submit the question &#8220;The &#8216;Cleveland Steamer&#8217;&#8230;okey-dokey or forbidden? How about the &#8216;Hot Karl&#8217;?&#8221; I&#8217;m tempted.</p>
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		<title>By: Foehammer</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-703</link>
		<dc:creator>Foehammer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 00:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-703</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s nothing &quot;level-headed&quot; about your arrogance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s nothing &#8220;level-headed&#8221; about your arrogance.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-702</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-702</guid>
		<description>My personal favourites are:

- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.khalidmosque.com/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=FAQ&amp;file=index&amp;myfaq=yes&amp;id_cat=91&amp;categories=General+Question&amp;parent_id=0#145&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Crying when you&#039;re sick is okay as long as it is not accompanied by wailing&lt;/a&gt;.  So ah, have some powerful painkillers handy.

- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.khalidmosque.com/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=FAQ&amp;file=index&amp;myfaq=yes&amp;id_cat=91&amp;categories=General+Question&amp;parent_id=0#797&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Watching sports is not okay&lt;/a&gt;, and subscribing to sports channels is right out.

- If your wife isn&#039;t enough of a hottie, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.khalidmosque.com/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=FAQ&amp;file=index&amp;myfaq=yes&amp;id_cat=91&amp;categories=General+Question&amp;parent_id=0#850&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bigamy is okay&lt;/a&gt; because it&#039;s easier for the woman to bear than divorce.

Somebody has spent an awful lot of time thinking about these things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My personal favourites are:</p>
<p>- <a href="http://www.khalidmosque.com/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=FAQ&amp;file=index&amp;myfaq=yes&amp;id_cat=91&amp;categories=General+Question&amp;parent_id=0#145" rel="nofollow">Crying when you&#8217;re sick is okay as long as it is not accompanied by wailing</a>.  So ah, have some powerful painkillers handy.</p>
<p>- <a href="http://www.khalidmosque.com/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=FAQ&amp;file=index&amp;myfaq=yes&amp;id_cat=91&amp;categories=General+Question&amp;parent_id=0#797" rel="nofollow">Watching sports is not okay</a>, and subscribing to sports channels is right out.</p>
<p>- If your wife isn&#8217;t enough of a hottie, <a href="http://www.khalidmosque.com/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=FAQ&amp;file=index&amp;myfaq=yes&amp;id_cat=91&amp;categories=General+Question&amp;parent_id=0#850" rel="nofollow">bigamy is okay</a> because it&#8217;s easier for the woman to bear than divorce.</p>
<p>Somebody has spent an awful lot of time thinking about these things.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-701</guid>
		<description>(for the search term &quot;Thanksgiving&quot;, I hasten to add)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(for the search term &#8220;Thanksgiving&#8221;, I hasten to add)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/comment-page-1/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/10/03/national-post-mosque-says-to-avoid-western-holidays/#comment-700</guid>
		<description>I think that would be this article here:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.khalidmosque.org/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=Sections&amp;file=index&amp;req=viewarticle&amp;artid=141&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;To you be your celebrations, and to me mine&lt;/a&gt;.

All you have to do is use the search function on the mosque&#039;s site, it&#039;ll be link #4 in the Sections: results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that would be this article here:  <a href="http://www.khalidmosque.org/en/modules.php?op=modload&amp;name=Sections&amp;file=index&amp;req=viewarticle&amp;artid=141" rel="nofollow">To you be your celebrations, and to me mine</a>.</p>
<p>All you have to do is use the search function on the mosque&#8217;s site, it&#8217;ll be link #4 in the Sections: results.</p>
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